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Author Topic: Frank Kelly (Weeper) Quotes from and old MMM Forum - Part 1  (Read 319 times)

MauraMurrayAdmin

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Frank Kelly (Weeper) Quotes from and old MMM Forum - Part 1
« on: November 29, 2019, 01:22:16 pm »
Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
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Post # 3870
August 9, 2008

I have been following this site as I have with the MMM Forum. Some posters here know who I am and I've met some of you over the years. I believe most of you are here because you want to help and contribute to the investigation of Maura's dissapperance.

As I've stated on Maura's Forum in the past, I will assist in answering questions you may have so long as those questions/answers do not hinder this investigation.

I am, by profession, a nationaly certified criminal defense investigatior, not being employed, paid, induced or otherwise under the influance of any member of the Murray family. I am one of several private investigators (pro-bono)from MA,NH,ME,VT and CT who are taking on this case for one purpose only..to uncover the TRUTH of what happened to Maura Murray on Feb. 9, 2004. I am not here to entertain you or partake in frivolous conversation.

Elsewhere posted this:

    The reason why I brought up Weeper yesterday, not Frank Kelly, is because his posts on Maura's forum were ones that I took into careful consideration.

    "He removed himself from the case shortly after the volunteer search in 2006 and wrote a letter to the courts requesting that the information on Maura's case remained sealed."

I have not removed myself from this case and did not send a letter to any court requesting all documents remain sealed. Though I agree they should be held from public release as this is an ongoing investigation.

    Maura's has been a major homicide investigation for quite some time, this was confirmed to me the day I read Weeper's letter to the courts.

    Weeper's on Maura's side and he obviously has a good reason to go against Fred's desire to obtain more information in an effort to find her.

    "Weeper was also one of the number of experts who stated the person(s) responsible for Maura's disappearance has done it before and will do it again."

This statement I do agree with, though I will not give specific reasons for my belief that Maura was the victim of "foul play".

    Whiston,

   It may be worth your while to go back and re-read Weeper's posts on Maura's first forum. His are easy to find, they are in all caps.

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MauraMurrayAdmin

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
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Post # 3881
August 9, 2008

To all,

Allow me to explain/extrapolate on our (The Maura Murray PI Task Force Team) reasoning for not wanting and/or accepting any documents obtained from the New Hampshire Major Crimes Unit as related to this investigation.

To begin with, our group of investigators has over 150 years of “criminal investigation” experience combined/jointly in every aspect of investigations. That is to say, we have experts (Court Certified Experts) in Accident Reconstruction (automobiles, trains, boats, etc.), Defense Investigators, State Police Homicide Investigators (retired, now Private Investigators), Search and Rescue Experts, Statement Analysis and Body Languish Experts and Missing Persons (cold/unsolved cases) Investigators.

All these investigators come from Professional Associations from the State level and National level. We meet quarterly to discuss the progress of our involvement in the search for Maura and we come to a “majority consensus” as to our theories and methods of operation. Each investigator is given “investigative tasks” as their area of expertise dictates coordinated by an elected Team Leader; in this case it is John Healy.

To accept any information/documents from the NHSP Major Crimes Unit or the AG’s Office would prevent us (separately or jointly) from conducting an “unbiased/independent” investigation into Maura’s disappearance and would put us in jeopardy and criminally liable to prosecution for “interfering in an on-going State investigation” if we were to act on the information/documents provided. However, any progress we make on our own we can pursue without “prejudice” and EVERY SOLID LEAD is immediately sent to the Lead Investigator for the NHSP Major Crimes Unit.

We do not keep ANYTHING from the State Police that we feel will help in solving this case. We do keep these “information/results” from the public for the same reason the police do, we want a successful prosecution of those responsible for this CRIME. As for the feeling that the people who live in Haverhill, Swiftwater, Bath and the surrounding area haven’t been helpful in this pursuit, let me assure each and every one of you reading this Forum without the good hearted citizens up there in the North Country we would not be able to function at all.

They have provided us with their time, money, food, housing and prayers from day-one! There are a few very dangerous people up there it’s true, but there are a few very dangerous people in every corner of this planet, however there are a lot more of us who give a damn and value life. Not just our own, but every life.

Suicide and accidental death we have ruled out, collectively. All Maura look-alike “sightings” reported to us have been checked (yes, even the Church sighting) with negative results. Thank you for taking the time to read this long post, if/when I post information (with Team approval) please understand that it is given to you all with the hope you will utilize the information to fit a “viable theory” that may be useful toward a successful conclusion to this case.

The damage to Maura’s Saturn was not the result of running off the road, into a snow bank and striking a tree. This is a fact, use it. The cracked windshield was from the inside of the vehicle, this is a fact, use it.

Weeper PS...sorry if this posts twice, I sent it once and it went..God-knows-where???

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Weeper
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Post # 3902
Aug 10, 2008

To All, Mr. Franklin has developed an interesting line of thought and theory I feel compelled to respond to, please read through this and garnish what you may. Benjamin Franklin writes (Hayward, CA)

    "Now for my questions to Weezer"

Mr. Franklin, my aka is “Weeper” not Weezer, though my doctor may feel weezer more appropriate since my last physical, my lungs working less than my “tear ducts” as of late.

    "I believe the Material question is: "At what point were Maura's actions involuntary, if at all?"

I will address this question as “we” or “our”(referring to the PI Team) collectively for the sake accuracy. Our collective opinion is that Maura’s “involuntary actions” began where the “overhang damage to the front end of the Saturn” occurred.

This location is as yet determined though we suspect within 1-3 miles of the Saturn’s location at the “Red Barn”.

    "That is not a question I expect Weezer to answer.:) The evidence you supplied implies the scene was set up."

This does seem to imply a staged placing of the vehicle, yes. It brings to my attention the possibility that it was not Maura in the car that Mr. Atwood saw. This is certainly a viable possibility and probability as well.

It also brings to mind the assertion that a man saw a girl running along the road the night of the accident.

The man who stated this did not report this to the police. A conversation this individual had with another person was “overheard” and reported to the police two months after the night of the “incident”, reported shortly before an extensive ground search of the immediate area was being planned.

    "Which brings me to a question for Weezer. Has Mr. Atwood stated that he has seen Maura's picture and Maura was the person whom he saw in the car?"

Mr. Atwood was shown a photograph/picture of Maura and stated “the girl looked like her but her hair was down”, where Maura nearly always wore her hair in a “bob-hair” style.

Keep in mind that no one in that area had ever seen Maura Murray before, that we are aware of.

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Weeper
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Post # 3903
August 10, 2008

Continued,

    "This answer either places Maura in the car or places Mr. Atwood as a participant in a conspiracy."

Your assumption is wrong on both accounts here, Mr. Franklin.

    Assuming Mr. Atwood’s statement is truthful, he saw a female who “looked like Maura” but different in at least one aspect, to wit: her hair was different.

    Mis-identification is no basis (on its own standing) to assume an active attempt to deceive. Eye witness accounts are always “circumstantial evidence” for this very reason, Mr. Franklin.

    "At this point it is a matter of subtantiating Mr. Atwood's assertion that he did not abduct her."

Again, be careful how you set your questions and statements Mr. Franklin; Mr. Atwood does not have to “assert” he did not abduct Maura. Mr. Atwood at this point is merely a “witness” and not a person of interest/suspect. This is only one of many statements made by Mr. Atwood and a judgment of “credibility” can not be made standing on one statement.

    "The fact that the scene was statged does not preclude Maura's involvement in the staging. Her actions show that she had an undisclosed agenda and because of this, I wouldn't put it past her to stage the accident."

The first sentence above was asked and answered under “At what point were Maura's actions involuntary, if at all?" As to Maura’s “undisclosed agenda”, your assumption may or may not be correct only if we (collectively) knew what that agenda was.

    "But I also see that the staging puts Mr. Atwood in a precarious position."

Again, if Mr. Atwood played an active role in the occurrence of this incident, it would be foolish to place it in your own front yard. We feel the location was picked (in an area where there existed a locale full time; albeit small, Police Department and just shy of Federal property, to wit The White Mountain National Forest) for “jurisdictional” reasons.

In any case, the staging of the accident was intended for us to believe that she was abducted - which helps her the most (to start a new life)- secondly an abductor, that now the evidence points its neon sign to.

The staging of any incident (automobile accident, a murder, abduction, stolen property and such) is for one purpose only; to relocate the “physical evidence” from the actual scene of the crime, even if the “crime” is as simple as “abandoning a vehicle on a public way”.

    "I am, as always, your humble Servant, etc. &"

I hope my answering your questions and responding to your assumptions will assist you in furthering your theory of what became of Maura Murray, Mr. Franklin. I will not repeat myself in this Forum once I’ve commented on any post. The readers can use this information or ignore it and “pick and choose” bits of information to bind their theories together if they choose. However, one does not come to the truth by putting on blinders because it’s easier that way, one comes to the truth by starting over and over and over again and again until the “picture-puzzle” hangs by two tacks on the wall without falling to the floor. This is why it may take years to solve a mystery such as this. We have traveled the path you are on years ago. It’s a good path, Mr. Franklin. Thank you for your input and I look forward to following your progress. Weeper

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
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Post # 3998
August 13, 2008

Good evening to you all,

Clearly there seems to be much emotion expressed from some very caring individuals on this Topix Discussion Group and I can appreciate your input and passion for getting to the truth of this case.

If you will allow me an opinion and address some of these issues with as much finesse’ as an old-Irish Terrier can muster;

Mr. Franklin’s posts (3988 and 3989) in responding to Sophie’s posts were well thought out, checking emotions at the door so-to-speak. I don’t believe I’ve read many (if any) posters stating their “theories” as “facts” rather just possible scenarios to build a “viable theory” upon.

The alleged facts are garnished by media reports to the public, it’s all you folks have to work with, simply because you are not privy to a lot of “behind the scenes” activities by Law Enforcement, our PI Team and even witnesses who may or may not have been instructed to remain silent.

This does not mean that what you all have offered up in these discussions is being ignored or not appreciated by both the family of Maura Murray (all you/ us/we “insiders?”) and our Team.

Euro, your post (3993) is correct in part (if one wishes to begin at Amherst, MA and work ones way to Haverhill, NH it would take longer than where we are today) however, we do have to start at one end or the other.

Sometimes the only way to find the beginning is to work backwards and in this case it’s the abandoned Saturn 620 feet east of the intersection of Bradley Hill Road on Route 112 in Haverhill, NH. This is where the “physical evidence” to wit; the vehicle was found.

I have posted and clearly stated as “fact”(this can be backed up in any court of law, but not here) the damage to the Saturn did not happen where the vehicle was recovered. Hence, our investigation of foul play begins there,(by “there” I mean within a few miles) and I might add, has not ventured far from there, for the two and a half years that I’ve been involved with this case.

This does not mean we (the Team, LE and others) have not explored all the possibilities to include run-away, suicide, accidental wandering/death, hit-and-run etc.

I (this is my “professional opinion”, not necessarily the Team or LE you understand) believe the location of the Saturn was staged. I believe Maura met with foul play prior to the staging, I believe the overhang damage to the front end of the Saturn was deliberate; I believe her disappearance was not voluntary and I further believe this is no longer a “search and rescue” but a recovery. If there was ever a time in my life I hope to be wrong it is at this time.

Some of you will whole-heartedly disagree with this and some will positively agree with this and that’s fine, because it is after all a mystery worthy of discussion and debate.

Please try to be respectful, analytical, logical and accepting of all “reasonable scenarios” in support of your theories.

Thank you for allowing me an opportunity to speak as freely as I am capable.

Respectfully

Weeper

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
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Post # 4032
August 14, 2008

To all, if I may

First off, thank you Jerry for clarifying some misunderstandings as to what I posted here on Topix for Mr. Franklin’s posts on WebSlueths.

I would like to recap some information that has previously been posted on the MMM Forum and partly on this site as well, with reference to the first “call-out” about an accident on route 112 at or about 7:00-7:10 PM on February 9, 2004.

A witness returning home from her/his place of employment at Cottage Hospital on Goose Lane stated she/he observed a black “Bronco style” police unit with #1 stenciled on it passed her/him heading (with blue lights flashing) toward the intersection of Goose Lane and French Pond Road in Swiftwater.

Please have a map of this area to follow along as it gets confusing since these routes twist from Haverhill into the Swiftwater portion of the town of Bath and back into the northern section of Haverhill. Goose Lane and the Cottage Hospital are in Haverhill, then into Bath where it continues south-south west back toward the Woodsville portion of Haverhill. As the witness drove further up Goose Lane she/he observed the police unit continue on Goose Lane back toward Swiftwater.

As this witness turned off Goose Lane in Bath and onto French Pond Road and the very short distance on French Pond Road to the intersection with route 112 (the Wild Ammonoosuc Road as it’s called) almost across from the general store, she/he observed the same unit (#1) pass her/him at that intersection heading east toward where the Saturn was ultimately located.

When the witness came to the corner at the Weathered Barn she/he saw this police unit, nose to nose with the Saturn (ass-end into the snow bank) but did not see any officers or people around the two vehicles (it is assumed Sgt. Smith was at this point either speaking with the Westermans or down speaking with Mr. Atwood.

The witness then continued along route 112 East heading home and flashed her/his high-low beams to oncoming traffic (universal signal to slow down ahead) due to the location of the accident on the sharp curve.

This witness’ account of what she/he saw that evening supports the postings about an “earlier accident” where “female left in private vehicle”, which was heard by others over the scanners up in that area.

What does all this mean then? It means an officer was responding to a “vehicle slid off the road” call, but rather than take the most direct route to the Weathered Barn the officer went back toward Route 10 where it intersect with Goose Lane up in the Woodsville section of Haverhill, before turning back toward the corner at the Westerman’s Weathered Barn.

Could there have been two separate women sliding off the road into snow banks that evening within thirty minutes of one another, I doubt it but it is possible none the less.

End Part 1

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Post # 4033
August 14, 2008

This information has been posted so I’m not telling you anything your own research would not have revealed. This information is only part of the reason I/we place Maura’s disappearance somewhere within 1-3 miles of where the Saturn came to rest.

Again, keep in mind this is only “circumstantial evidence” as are all eye-witness accounts. In my many years experience (statistically speaking) there are more convictions based on circumstantial evidence than on “physical evidence”. Long post but I feel this will help you in your scenarios and theories.

Respectfully

Weeper

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Post # 4069
August 15, 2008

To all,

Thank you all for allowing me to assist you in your pursuit in seeking out the truth and facts in this case.

That being said, there is now (or will there ever be in the future) any reason for anyone to apologize to me for anything you may post here on this Topix site, regardless of the context/content of your postings. I have been doing this work for many years and my skin is to thick to take anything personal.

Our goal is the same, our methodologies may differ, our scenarios and theories range from close to the mark (utilizing the facts provided you) to the obscure/obscene (ignoring those facts). This is the purpose of “open and free public dialog” on this site.

I do respect the amount of time and energy you all have contributed to this end, and thank you for assisting me and our Team in doing so.

To clear up a misunderstanding we were all under for some time in reference to the black Bronco type police vehicle, this unit was in fact H1 (for Haverhill unit #1) and was operated by Sgt. C. Smith on the evening of Feb. 9, 2004.

So there is no “mystery Bronco” to speak of, no “rouge make-believe-police vehicle” involved in any of this situation.

Respectfully,

Weeper

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Post # 4078
August 15, 2008

FireCat wrote:

"I believe if you go back to Weeper's most recent post, he cleared that up. That Bronco IS H1...they are one and the same....and so presumably is owned by HPD and was operated by CS. As usual, Weeper, if I'm lyin' I'm buyin'.:)"

Firecat, you are correct, it is one in the same vehicle.

Wheston, yes there does seem to be a discrepency between the witness statement and the police accident report.

Draw your own conclussions about this and take into account the intire accident report, you may find several other problems with that. The Grafton County Dispatch log was previously posted (I believe on the MMM site) and I am not obliged to re-post it.

You can find the accident report on the exsisting MMM site however, and if one looks at EVERY block, and word in the report you may be left scratching your head. Print this document out and when I say EVERY block and word, take a highlighter and highlight every part that seems odd.

When you've completed this "document evaluation" in this manner, if you have more than six (6) highlighted oddities they're not there by "mistake". Note the time the report was writen and the information in this "official public document" and draw your own "reasonable" conclussions, if you will.

Sophie, please read the information provided to you before posting your questions, as Firecat pointed out.

The "dog-hit" at the A-frame was stated as "possibly being minsterl secretions" from a laundry hamper (in the closet)on the second floor or any blood/human secretions from clothing "near/under" a washing machine on the first floor. The dogs hit on both locations and the carpet was removed from the first floor.

We handled this material as is expected in our field and sent half to the NHSP. We never expect any return information from the LE community nor do we want it. The reasons for this have been stated earlier.

You all need to keep in mind that in the process of a criminal "on-going investigation" even "public information" can be(and often is)witheld from public scrutiny. If you can't understand the reasoning for this, take up needle-point rather than investigations. I'm not being funny about this, I mean it.

Respectfully
Weeper

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Weeper
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Post # 4089
August 16, 2008

To all,

Sophie, I wasn't scolding you in my last post. You stated in your post #4071 in paragraph #2 about an unknown Bronco after I explained the mix up about H1 Police vehicle.

Then I explained about the dog hits you mentioned in your post #3 as possibly being from minstrel fluids from a hamper. I also explained the reasoning about "public" right to know versus an ongoing police investigation, that's just the way it is.

I can't change that and I never thought you (or anyone else) are here for "purient curiosity" or to be funny. If you feel this way by what I've stated in my previous post you are taking this personaly and you should not because you have some very interesting perspectives.

I have responded to issues on the MMM Forum to questions (from you and others)with complete honesty and I, quite frankly don't care if you feel it trustworthy or not, that's up to you.

As to this evenings Dateline 20/20 report of Maura's disappearance, they report what they are given. Main Stream Media has played an important role in keeping the Murray family's plight in our minds and hearts, believe a third of what you hear, half of what you read and ALL THAT YOU EXPERIENCE. If you give me the benefit of the doubt and believe half of what I tell you, you will be ahead of MSM.

WeWii, I wouldn't take to much stalk in what you've heard/read on that issue. I've read the same stuff and won't waste any more time on this person's foolishness, of course that's up to you.

As I've stated to you all, I don't have a thin skin and expect no alpologies from any of you, nor will I give any if your feelings get hurt by what I post, take up needlepoint if you can't deal with it.

Respectfully,

Weeper
PS sense Shack has addressed me as Frank, my name is Francis Patrick Kelly.

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Post # 4269
August 20, 2008

Hello All,

Advocator Post #4266...to answer your question about a volunteer fire depertment meeting on the evening of 2-9-04 there was in fact a meeting and training session at the firehouse that evening. In fact, there were about 7-9 firefighters who responded (with and on one fire truck) to the incident at the Weathered Barn soon after Sgt. Smith responded.

Good point Advocator and Bill, that it makes perfect sense to send a BOLO out to the volunteers over thier CB's (and to all the citizens who listen in on these calls as well), more eyes on the road looking for a wandering female.

Which brings me to remark on the previous posts that suggest the police department (officers) in Haverhill were in any way connected to Maura's disappearence and/or abduction. At no time or in any way have I or any member of our PI Team ever suggested a "rouge cop or cop wanna-be" was behind this crime.

The most that was suggested was that the incident was not handled properly from the start.

The physical condition of the Saturn would have alerted any competently trained police officer to look for awing(skid marks) and debris on the roadway in the immediate area, there wasn't any at that location.

To this day the Media and "most people" think the car skidded off the road into the snow bank and hit a tree even knowing the Saturn was facing away from the snow bank and trees.

In fact, the actual location of the Saturn was not at the tree with the "blue bow" on it, the location was another one hundred feet east of that tree.

Hope this eases some minds that we (the PI Team)are not putting this crime/disappearence on the citizens or officials in the town of Haverhill.

Respectfully,

Weeper

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Post # 4423
August 25, 2008

To all, if I may

With reference to documents/videotapes being accepted as evidence (Court Exhibit #132, etc.) and presented in a Trial Court, the author of that document/videotape is required to be present to “authenticate” the Exhibit. The exception to this rule is when both the State (Plaintiff in a Civil matter) and the Defense agree to its authentication a Judge will generally accept the Exhibit and introduce it into evidence.

Contrary to WTF’s belief, sometimes attorneys (even apposing Counsel) will agree on the introduction of documents and or videotapes into evidence without them being authenticated to save the Courts time.

Obviously a videotape (time dated) speaks for itself or “stands-alone” as you put it but, almost always has to be authenticated by the person who took the videotape or completed the document.

Police Reports are always “subjective” thereby open to challenge after a thorough document evaluation by the opposing side.

Police Reports/Accident Reports sometimes tend to be very much open to interpretation (as are most all writings) in that we are taught very young in life to write in a chronological order to tell a story, and that’s exactly what you read in these documents, a story.

Often times, when a Police Report/Accident Report is written days (or weeks later, as in accident reports which have to be filed within 15 days of the accident) facts arise “out of order” yet appear chronologically in a Police Report. Sometimes this practice of putting “facts” out-of-the-order they are learned (or in a chronologic order to make ones story flow) can turn a case around at Trial.

Example would be discovering evidence in a vehicle, then using that evidence in an “Affidavit in Support of a Search Warrant”(the legal instrument to conduct the search) to search the vehicle then re-discovering the same evidence.

Police officers are not lawyers and most don’t understand “case law”. Ask any police officer what gives him/her the “authority” to stop you for speeding and they will say something like “I’m a police officer, that’s my authority.”

Their “authority” is the Statue/RSA/General Law you violated not the badge on their shirts or the gun on their hip. The “story” in this accident report boils down to everyone justifying their actions or inactions. I’m sure everyone expected Maura to show up in a few days after she “sobered up”. They were wrong.

Respectfully,

Weeper

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Post # 4433
August 25, 2008

WTF Post #4431
Bill,

During my younger years as a patrol office I did have similar situations of “walk-away” accidents (though I was employed by a large Metropolitan Police Department) and we generally had our duty sergeant called to the scene, leaving the decision to the more experienced officer.

In Maura’s situation, Bill Sergeant Smith was the second in command at the Haverhill Police Department. We have to assume he was trained to be observant and base his decisions on whatever evidence is present at all scenes he comes across.

Had I arrived at that scene I would have made some remarkable similar assumptions as had Sgt. Smith with respect to speaking with those witnesses (the Westmans and Mr. Atwood) who were close to or on scene, and with respect to a casual inspection of the vehicle from outside the locked doors of the contents within. The major problem I have was with the external damage to the vehicle, the positioning of the vehicle and the lack of evidence in the roadway to support the accident occurred at that location.

If Sgt. Smith said there were no signs of foul play I have to take this to mean he didn’t see anything unusual about the scene in general. This assumption is very disturbing to me if I am to credit the officer with being knowledgeable of accident scenes and having “experienced judgment”.

If say for instance, it was a young officer just on the force for three months came to these conclusions I would chalk it up to ignorance, but don’t we all expect more from an experienced police sergeant?

I think there were a lot of activities going on that Monday evening (what they all were I couldn’t begin to guess) and I don’t think the police were prepared for some of those activities. Could Sgt. Smith have done things differently? I don’t know, I wasn’t there and I’m not going to “armchair” what could/should have been done.

I will credit the Haverhill Police Department for having done some things to locate the operator of that Saturn, unlike the officer in Brianna Maitland’s (sp) abandoned vehicle (stuck in the side of a barn building) who decided to take care of “business” when he returned from his weekend off.

Some officers are more proactive than others, some are just plain lazy and others are just plain mean. I am not going to beat up the police for what they did or didn’t do, nor am I going to tow the company line and agree with everything they do.

The police are here to serve and protect the citizens but as I was told by the owner of the Stage Stop Store three years ago “We are our first line of defense up here, until the police arrive.” And she is 100% correct in that advice.

Way back in the mid-seventies (that’s when I was a young police officer) the EMT service was part of the police department, I first worked on the “meat-wagon”(a gum-balled station wagon with a portable stretcher) as a medic-police officer and we had many “walk-away” accidents where most often they were intoxicated or the vehicle came back as stolen.

On several of those occasions the person was later found falling into a pond and drowning, stumbling into on-coming traffic and getting hit or passed out in a ditch down the road.

Any of these things could have happened to Maura in the early days….but they didn’t, as we now know. Hope this clears up a few questions you may have had.

Euro...#4432 Post

Unfortunatly Euro, I can not respond to any inquiry as to where or when searches were conducted or will be conducted on this or any "public" forum. I'm sure you understand the reason for this.
Respectfully

Weeper

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Post # 4560
August 29, 2008

WTF Post # 4558...

Bill,
I see where CS's "tire impressions in the snow" can look confusing. Remember the SBD said he was nose-to-nose with the Saturn? Also the witness who returned from Cottage Hospital stated "the black Bronco police vehicle (CS's unit) was nose-to-nose with the Saturn"...these statements indicate the Saturn's rear wheels were furthest into the snowbank while the front tires were nearly parallel to the roadway.

I have no idea what CS was trying to convey to the reader with this diagram. Notice also he says "trees" and indicates three such trees. Also note the four word notation "Vehicle at Final rest" with the diagram of the vehicle clearly in the roadway.

So the combination of the "tire impressions in snow" + "Trees" + "vehicle at final rest" = the Saturn was trveling west, slid into the snowbank, struck the trees spun around and bounced back into the roadway. Never happened that way, and yes you are absolutley correct...photographs would most certainly clear this issue up.

First off, there aren't three trees that close to the roadway large enough to cause that scenerio, secondly there is a rather deep ditch just on the other side of the snowbank, thirdly the Saturn didn't come to "final rest" on the roadway.

Draw your own conclussions as to CS's diagraming of the "accident scene". Don't know if I've answered your question (and a very good question indeed, Bill) you're the only one who caught this part of the report with a questioning eye. Nice catch, now find the other 20+ descrepancies in this report and you and I will be on the same sheet of music.

Respectfully,

Weeper

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Post # 4694
September 5, 2008

To all,

I should have read LT Tragg's response prior to posting with reference to HPD IMC data-system. As to any/all searches done (or to be done)by the State or by our Team.

At no time will any search organization give advance notice to the public as to the areas plotted to be searched, ever. Unless the object of the search is discovered, the public will not be told the results or locations of those searches when completed.

Even when we organized the two-day search back in 2006, only those Team Leaders in the "Operations Room" knew where they were going to be dispatched, all the searchers where informed when they arrived at thier grid-locations.

Those who attended that search will recall they were seperated from everyone else in the Operations Room downstairs at the Ski Lodge.

Remember, those responsible for this disappearence are in the public and until they are behind bars the public will not be informed about what is or is not being investigated.

Respectfully,
Weeper

 

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