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Author Topic: Working Back Time of Arrival For Atwood (Opinion)  (Read 34 times)

MauraMurrayAdmin

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Working Back Time of Arrival For Atwood (Opinion)
« on: November 29, 2019, 10:47:30 am »
This post:
1. Is a historical post.
2. Needs to be revised for new information (from when it was originally posted.)
3. Needs to be revised for formatting
4. Is probably outdated due to a newer version of the post existing in the historical collection.

Analysis
Comment on Faith Westman in bold towards bottom.
In this post, I attempt, among other things, to discover when Butch Atwood's call to the Hanover dispatcher started. I also attempt to reconcile Cecil Smith's times with Butch Atwood and Dick Guy's.

I also point out that the evidence could indicate that it is possible that that another individual arrived at the scene of the accident 10 - 15 minutes before Cecil Smith arrived, and that the Westmans mistakenly believed that this individual was Cecil Smith.

The Grafton County dispatch logs show that Butch Atwood's call to the Hanover dispatcher ended before 19:43. This is the time that the call from the Hanover dispatcher to Grafton County dispatcher Rhonda Marsh started. However, we don't know how long Butch Atwood was on the phone with the Hanover dispatcher. Hanover has its own dispatchers and log system. The Hanover logs have never been acquired under the FOIA. I hope to gain more reasonable information about the Hanover logs as a result of exploring the evidence and attempting to recalculate the times involved.

If the reader finds the times assumed to be reasonable, and provide a te in to other witness statements, one can only conclude that Cecil Smith's arrival time was correctly recorded in the Grafton County logs - and that Cecil Smith called in his arrival to the dispatcher when he arrived at the scene.

Conversely, if one believes that Cecil Smith arrived before the time indicated in the log, one can attempt to criticize the assumptions made here. But if you do, I strongly suggest that you present a set of assumptions that show how Cecil Smith's early arrival could make sense in the context of the additional evidence, as I have done here. Otherwise, don't waste anyone's time rebutting with mere suppositions. If you cannot cohesively draw up a set of assumptions and make a case for Cecil Smith's early arrival, then there is no point in pretending that it could be true.

I think the earliest Butch Atwood's conversation with the Hanover dispatcher could have started is at about 19:39. (See below for the assumptions made to calculate when I think he was able to make the call to the Hanover dispatcher. These assumptions are based upon the approximate time we know Butch Atwood was at the accident site.)

I believe that Butch Atwood was on the phone with the Hanover dispatcher for as long as 4 minutes.

Faith Westman's call with dispatcher Rhonda March, lasted 8 minutes at most. It could have been as short as 2 minutes, 31 seconds. The length of time calculated for this call depends upon what time we assume the call ended: 19:26:31 or 19:35. For the sake of argument, I consider both times.

The unredacted version of the Haverhill call logs show Rhonda Marsh entering the phone call from Faith Westman into the system at 19:35, which is the basis for supposing it was an 8 minute phone call. A copy is here:. This document was formerly up at mauramurraymissing.com.

However, there is evidence that the call might have ended at 19:29:31 when Rhonda Marsh dispatched Cecil Smith at 19:29:31. That is to say, if we assume that Rhonda Marsh was only able to dispatch Cecil Smith after her conversation with Faith Westman ended.

Note: Faith Westman's account puts an officer (conservatively) at the scene at 19:35 (Or before 19:40, see [1] below), if we accept 19:35 as the time the call between Faith Westman and dispatcher Rhonda Marsh ended. It could be as early as 19:29:31 if, instead, we assume that the call between Faith Westman and the dispatcher ended immediately before Cecil Smith was dispatched. In any case, it means Butch Atwood left the scene either before 19:29:31 or before 19:35, based on that evidence alone. But when we take into consideration that Faith Westman has said that Butch Atwood was at the accident scene within 1-2 minutes of her call, and that Butch Atwood remained at the scene for an additional 1-2 minutes, it is clear that he left the scene of the accident at about 19:31 (19:27+2+2=19:31).
Of course, both assumptions (that the phone call ended at 19:29:31 or 19:35) presume that Faith Westman recalled correctly that: Butch Atwood both arrived and departed the accident scene during her phone call with dispatcher Rhonda Marsh. The important statement taken from Faith Westman is linked here: "See Smith nose to nose hangs up with 911.". This statement is somewhat reinforced by Sam Ledyard's account of his interview with the Westmans here - quoted at [2] below.

These times are important because Faith Westman said, in her interview with Whitewash, that Butch Atwood arrived after Faith Westman was on the phone with dispatcher Rhonda Marsh -- and that Atwood left the scene before Faith Westman's call to dispatcher Rhonda Marsh ended. This is mentioned here.

Rhonda Marsh's dispatcher notes for Faith Westman's call doesn't mention the fact that Faith Westman saw Butch Atwood arrive and leave. However, Faith Westman has stated that she saw Butch Atwood arrive and depart from the scene here. However, the difference between linked newspaper quote and Whitewash's interview with Faith Westman, is that the newspaper does not provide any information about when Faith Westman saw Butch Atwood arrive and depart in relation to her phone call to the dispatcher Rhonda Marsh. On the other hand, these newspaper quotes support the veracity of the interview.

Based upon Faith Westman's statement to Whitewash that "Atwood arrives with 1-2 min per Faith," it is reasonable to conclude that Butch Atwood arrived at the accident site between 19:28 and 19:29. (I previously erroneously stated that I believed that Butch Atwood wasn't there until after 19:29:31.)

Based upon Faith Westman's statement to Whitewash that "Atwood is there 1-2 mines tops Faith says." it is reasonable to conclude that that Butch Atwood had left the accident scene at about 19:31.

Next, I attempt to reconcile Butch Atwood's time to that of Cecil Smith. If this can be accomplished, we will have a basis to approximate when various events took place. The key point in time is when Cecil Smith and Butch Atwood's time lines intersect, which is when Cecil Smith knocked on Butch Atwood's bus. Right now I believe this was at about 19:54, because Dick Guy implies that Cecil Smith returned to the accident site shortly after his arrival.

Cecil Smith's time could be calculated as follows:

If He arrived at 19:46:20 and he took 1 minute to see that the Saturn was abandoned and approach the Westman's front door, that would make it 19:47:20. If his conversation with the Westmans lasted 2:00, this would make it 19:49:20. If the drive to Butch Atwood's bus took 3:00, he would be at the Bus talking to Butch Atwood at 19:51:50. If the conversation with Butch Atwood took 1:00 the conversation would have ended at 19:53:50. If it took another 3:00 minutes to return to the accident site, he would have been there at 19:56:20 - which is just after the time Dick Guy Arrived (19:56:08).

It is not unreasonable to assume that Cecil Smith, who arrived on scene at 19:46:20 would have taken 5:30 (19:46:20 + 5:30 = 19:51:50 - see above) to 1.) See that the Saturn was abandoned, 2.) approach the Westman's home. 3.) talk to the Westman's briefly (asking "where is the girl?") and then 4.) drive up the street to approach Butch Atwood on his bus.

We would know we have good time approximations for Butch Atwood and Cecil Smith, if we can place both of them at Butch Atwood's bus at 19:51:50.

Butch Atwood's time could be calculated as follows:

I think it is reasonable to believe that he could have accomplished the following in 8 minutes (between 19:31 and 19:39) - and thus establish that as a rough estimate of his call time to Hanover dispatch:

Drive his bus 200 yards

Park his bus backwards in his driveway

Walk to his front door

Open his front door

Walk into the residence

Get the phone

Walk outside with phone and call police

I think the delay for busy circuits and finding the Hanover number took, at most, 1 minute, if Butch Atwood called from outside.

It doesn't take long (15 seconds maybe) to find out the circuits are busy.

Since Butch was outside, he had to have the phone number handy or by memory.

I doubt much time was wasted on additional calls to 911 before they decided to call Hanover instead.

Butch Atwood also said that "After about seven to nine minutes, he looked out and saw the Haverhill Police." (quote source linked above) This was after his call to Hanover dispatch. (19:31 + 8:00 (Butch Atwood Travel to Home) = 19:39 + 4:00 (Butch Atwood Length of Phone Call to Hanover) = 19:43 + 9:00 (Time of Cecil Smith to Arrive at Butch Atwood's bus after his phone call ended) = 19:52 - see below).

Also it is clear that Dick Guy was saying that the Saturn's driver was not at the Saturn at 19:56 when he arrived with the EMS. Specifically, he said "there was nobody at the site of the accident" when he arrived, but that was after Cecil Smith was on scene at 19:46:20, so he didn't mean Cecil Smith was not at the scene at all. However, he might have meant that Cecil Smith was not in the immediate vicinity of the Saturn, as he was 100 yards up the road talking to Butch Atwood.

No effect on the time - but after Hanover dispatch called dispatcher Rhonda Marsh at 19:43, Rhonda Marsh (Grafton) called the Atwood residence [They reached his common law wife, he was outside] (This took place after 19:43, say 19:44, if this call lasted a minute). Butch Atwood's common law wife was on the phone until 19:48, the time dispatcher Rhonda Marsh finished writing her narrative. This idea is reinforced by the assumption that Butch Atwood's common law wife was probably on the phone until after 19:46:20 [in second Atwood call] because Anthony Stiles logged Cecil Smith's arrival at 19:46:20, not Rhonda Marsh, who was presumably preoccupied talking to Ms. Atwood.

A newspaper article in which Butch Atwood is interviewed: https://mauramurray.createaforum.com/evidence/newspaper-articles-57/?message=422

The idea that Faith Westman's call to dispatcher Rhonda Marsh ended at 19:29:31 makes some sense, because, presumably, dispatcher Rhonda Marsh could only have one conversation at a time. The implication of accepting 19:29:31 as the time that the Faith Westman-Rhonda Marsh conversation ended, is that Cecil Smith was dispatched simultaneous to the time when the call ended between Faith Westman and the dispatcher. He could not have arrived instantly at the scene. If this is true, it certainly means that the Westmans were mistaken and that the officer that arrived prior to their conversation ending, was not Cecil Smith - it was another law enforcement officer that was not dispatched to the scene, that was coincidentally in the area.
The idea that Faith Westman's call to dispatcher Rhonda Marsh ended at 19:35, places an officer at the scene at 19:35, 11 minutes before Cecil Smith arrived on scene. Again, this means that the Westmans were likely mistaken and that the officer that arrived prior to their conversation ending, was not Cecil Smith - it was another law enforcement officer that was not dispatched to the scene, that was coincidentally in the area.
Of course, if this hypothetical mystery officer told Maura Murray she was under arrest for DUI, she would not have screamed. That no screams were heard, eliminates the idea that an accident-site-dirtbag (that could not be mistaken for LE) abducted her there. See "The Law of Noisy Abductions, here."
[1] Dispatcher Rhonda Marsh finished entering the call narrative into the system at 19:40. If Cecil Smith arrived at 19:40, then Cecil Smith is not the individual Witness A saw at 19:37 PM. Additionally, if Cecil Smith arrived at 19:40 PM, there probably isn't a "mystery officer" involved, because, I cannot imagine how the "mystery officer" could have picked up Maura Murray and left in time to go unnoticed by Cecil Smith, who arrived at 19:46:20, only 6 minutes later. Dispatcher Rhonda Marsh was on the phone with Hanover dispatch at 19:43, certainly finished with the phone call to Faith Westman. In other words Witness A places another officer at the scene, not Cecil Smith.

[2] "I asked Mr. Westman why he and Mrs. Westman stopped watching the site. He stated that Mrs. Westman remained in the kitchen until the cruiser arrived..."

Additional corroborative analysis:

Quoting a question from /u/Bill_Occam

But if I recall Karen McNamara's interview correctly, she was shown a photograph of the Haverhill 001 SUV and she confirmed it was the one she saw.

Yes - I am aware of this. And I am aware of the time - and accept the 7:37PM time that has been calculated to approximate (margin of error of a minute) when she was there. But it could not have been Cecil Smith's 001 that she saw.
Witness A is placed at the scene at 7:37 PM. I am, for the sake of argument (in your favor), saying that the call between Faith Westman and dispatcher Rhonda Marsh ended at 7:35, the time Rhonda Marsh entered a notation in the computer system.
If I were to insist that the call between Faith Westman and dispatcher Rhonda Marsh ended at 7:40, the time that Rhonda Marsh entered her narrative about her phone call with Faith Westman, there is no way Witness A saw Cecil Smith. This is because Witness A would have had to have driven hazardously at an average of 54 miles an hour on a pitch black windy road the entire way to Beaver Pond. See this chart This would set the time of Cecil Smith's arrival at 7:40 PM, because, recall, that the notes from the interview with Faith Westman indicate what she had said: "Still on the phone with 911. 12. Hears a car goes back to the kitchen window. 13. See Smith nose to nose hangs up with 911." In other words, Faith Westman's conversation with dispatcher Rhonda Marsh ended once Faith Westman saw an "officer" arrive.
However, I am assuming that Cecil Smith arrived at 7:35 for the sake of argument (in your favor). With that in mind, and quoting Maggie Freleng: "We also know that Cecil immediately went and knocked on neighbors doors.[1]" Obviously "immediately" does not equate to after 7:43. Lets say he was at the Westman's door at 7:37PM, the moment Witness A drove by, seeing no one around the 001 or the Saturn.
According to Faith Westman, as reported by Cold N. Holfield here and quoted below at [2]. as soon as Cecil Smith arrived at her door, Cecil Smith asked "where is the girl?" This is verified by Whitewash's notes that say: "Smith shows up and wants to know if the driver is there. 17.There is no one at the car. Faith looks out the window and the car is dark."
But the main point is this. It is impossible that Cecil Smith could have known a "girl" was involved in the single car accident at 7:37PM, because Hanover dispatch had not informed dispatcher Rhonda Marsh that there was a woman at the car until 7:43!
This means that Cecil Smith could not asked Tim and Faith Westman about a "girl" until after 7:43! Yet we are told that he asked them that within a few minutes of arrival.
How do we know Cecil Smith could not have been aware that a female was involved in the single car accident before 7:43? Well, the dispatch narrative that was entered into the system at 7:40 by Rhonda Marsh, regarding her call with Faith Westman only mention a man. The call started at 7:27. Quoting the dispatch logs:
"Narrative: 02/09/2004 1940 Marsh, Rhonda
At 1927, FAITH WESTMAN CALLED, TO ADV OF A VEH IN THE DITCH RIGHT ON SHARP TURN AFTER THE WEATHERED BARN. UNK IF PI, BUT CAN SEE A MAN IN VEH SMOKING CIGARETTE, WAS E/B RT 112, BUT ENDED UP IN W/B DITCH FACING W/B."

It wasn't until 7:43, when Hanover dispatch called dispatcher Rhonda Marsh, that anyone would be in a position to inform Cecil Smith that he was looking for a woman, and not a man. Quoting the dispatch logs:
"Narrative: 02/09/2004 1948 Marsh, Rhonda
AT 1943, HANOVER DISP CALLED TO ADV GOT A 911 CALL FOR US; 911 ADVISED ALL CIRCUITS BUSY: IS FOR 10-25, CALLER AT 2 WILD AMMONOOSUC RD, BUTCH ATWOOD RES, 747-3664. THEY ADV ONE FEMALE. NO PI, BUT SHOOK UP. (CALLED THE ATWOOD RES. WOMAN ADV HER HUSBAND SAW THE CRASH AND CAME HERE TO CALL, BUT NO IDEA WHERE THE FEMALE IS."

[1] I don't like saying I disagree with Maggie Freleng's hypothesis (bold portion below) that Cecil Smith called in his arrival "late" - but the evidence tells me otherwise. I do think she means well. Maggie Freleng'S entire quote is as follows: "We also know that Cecil immediately went and knocked on neighbors doors. That's why he called in his arrival late, 7:46, and she did not see him. He was doing his job, concerned about what happened and getting witness statements before he remembered to call in."

[2] "Per my interview with the Westmans, they indicated that he did indeed come to their door and his first words to them were 'where's the girl?' "

Note - this post was originally made to try to determine when Butch Atwood arrived at the accident site, but we now have that narrowed down to likely to between 19:28 and 19:29 ("She called 911. 4. The car remains dark. 5. Atwood arrives with 1-2 min per Faith." and "AT 1927, FAITH WESTMAN CALLED")
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 02:11:50 pm by MauraMurrayEvidence »

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